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Ginga Board > Community board > Ginga Densetsu Weed
KyoshiroWeedJerome
I noticed something today that really bothered me, so much to the point that I had to share it.

In GDW the moral is that kindness redeems people. Well, maybe it isn't the same in the manga, but in the anime that messaged is absolutely botched and that botching comes in the form of Lector and Thunder in particular. Weed gives them a second chance and spares their lives, which is fine. But what do they do?

In an anime supposed to be conveying that kindness is the key and not violence, we are shown that Lector and Thunder (right before Jerome murders them) are going to go back and try and off them again.

What? Just...what?

Maybe I am over thinking things here, but that completely botches the message the anime is trying to convey and instead shows that kindness is NOT redeeming but instead something that is not to be relied on at all! And especially when our main character is so young, they should have known to handle that message with care other wise it only makes him look like a foolish kid!

So not only did they botch the message, but they made our main character look like a fool and that Jerome's slaughtering of them was justified! You don't do that in a story about how kindness is key...just...wow...Wow.That really angers me! And now since Weed is the victim of bad writing, everyone hates him. =____=

Did this happen in the manga, too? If so, I'm going to kill Yoshihiro Takahashi...How do you eff up a story that badly? Am I over thinking things? o//////o
Digsu
QUOTE (KyoshiroWeedJerome @ Jan 30 2013, 01:19 AM) *
Maybe I am over thinking things here, but that completely botches the message the anime is trying to convey
Did this happen in the manga, too? If so, I'm going to kill Yoshihiro Takahashi...How do you eff up a story that badly? Am I over thinking things? o//////o
In the manga, Weed just says that there's too many of them against just two dogs and that he won't slaughter someone running away when Lecter and Thunder decide to get the hell out of there. What actually happened to the two afterwards is never explained.

So it's less about redeeming and more about being honorable in the manga, I guess.

But I agree, they kinda messed up the message in the anime. And it's not really the last time they do it, either - hell, Hougen was pretty much ready to kill everyone right after Weed's big "kindness is how you do it etc." speech except that convenient lightning bolt kinda put an end to that.
KishuInuKyoshiro
I really don't think you're over-thinking anything. That's something I never noticed in this anime before. I don't know if that happened in the manga, but Jerome does kill the hounds, so, yeah, I guess that probably counts...? I dunno. But I think Yoshi should've redeemed the hounds instead, other whys that's just botching the whole message.
KyoshiroWeedJerome
QUOTE (Digsu @ Jan 29 2013, 04:40 PM) *
In the manga, Weed just says that there's too many of them against just two dogs and that he won't slaughter someone running away when Lecter and Thunder decide to get the hell out of there. What actually happened to the two afterwards is never explained.

So it's less about redeeming and more about being honorable in the manga, I guess.

But I agree, they kinda messed up the message in the anime. And it's not really the last time they do it, either - hell, Hougen was pretty much ready to kill everyone right after Weed's big "kindness is how you do it etc." speech except that convenient lightning bolt kinda put an end to that.


I know Lector and Thunder left in the manga, they were replaced by two other dogs later but whether they were planning to come back and try again, I'm not sure. If so, that still is ruining the message by making the villains look irredeemable. I definitely agree about Hougen. At least in the manga he left...and was gunned down. =_= Guess that was the only way to stop him, but then it probably would have been a cheese-fest other wise.

Still, by making the villains irredeemable, it only makes Weed look like a foolish kid with unrealistic ideas. :/
ZackThePuppy
I believe Yoshi was trying to convey a 'spare your enemies' message in GDW, but he sort of went overboard with Weed. Weed is TOO nice sometimes--yeah, Lector and Thunder were outnumbered and had their fangs crushed so that's why he spared them, but Hougen was just way too dangerous to keep alive. And I find it odd that he didn't show any mercy towards Kaibutsu at the beginning of the series, but used the 'don't kill' moral on the others (but maybe he didn't see Kaibutsu as a dog, idk).

Don't get me wrong, I like Weed, but he often lets his kindness cloud his judgement. I think Gin had better judgement--he spared Kurojaki's life after defeating him, anyone remember that? But he wanted Hougen killed, since Hougen was even more dangerous than Kurojaki. Not to mention Jerome slaughtering Lector and Thunder was similar to John killing the bear cubs. Gin was pissed off but still let John prove himself to be worthy of the Ohu army, but Weed banished Jerome and lost a valuable member of his group.
ZackThePuppy
Double post
Digsu
QUOTE (ZackThePuppy @ Jan 30 2013, 05:29 AM) *
Don't get me wrong, I like Weed, but he often lets his kindness cloud his judgement. I think Gin had better judgement--he spared Kurojaki's life after defeating him, anyone remember that? But he wanted Hougen killed, since Hougen was even more dangerous than Kurojaki. Not to mention Jerome slaughtering Lector and Thunder was similar to John killing the bear cubs. Gin was pissed off but still let John prove himself to be worthy of the Ohu army, but Weed banished Jerome and lost a valuable member of his group.
There was also the fact that killing Kurojaki right in front of his own son might have been a bit too harsh. Not that it really matters since he ended up abandoning Chibi afterwards anyway but still.

Another thing that bothers me about Weed deciding to spare Hougen is that, in the manga, Yoshi seems to go out of his way to make him as despicable as possible (look, when your introductory scene has you brutally murdering one of your own subordinates for a petty reason, no amount of "BUT HE CARED FOR HIS BROTHER HE WASN'T ALL BAD" can make the reader not wish that you get your just desserts in the end). There's also the fact that the characters are, well, dogs and they don't exactly have many choices on how to punish someone. I mean, if Hougen were a human, he could just be thrown in prison for a life sentence (and be administered some meds for that matter, I'm pretty sure he fulfills the requirements of at least some mental illness), but you can't really do that when the characters are animals. At least not without being cheesy as hell.
ZackThePuppy
QUOTE (Digsu @ Jan 30 2013, 06:58 AM) *
There's also the fact that the characters are, well, dogs and they don't exactly have many choices on how to punish someone. I mean, if Hougen were a human, he could just be thrown in prison for a life sentence (and be administered some meds for that matter, I'm pretty sure he fulfills the requirements of at least some mental illness), but you can't really do that when the characters are animals. At least not without being cheesy as hell.


Exactly. They can't exactly throw Hougen in a mental institution (though if they had one for dogs he'd probably be sent straight there XD). I always wondered what Weed thought they were going to do with Hougen instead of killing him. Just keep him prisoner and make him think about what he's done, or let him wander around as a crippled, helpless dog for the rest of his life like Hiro did with Kamikiri? But since Hougen was able to stand up after being Battouga'd twice, that should have been a red flag for Weed that he needed to be killed (perhaps he would have changed his mind if the lightning/police officer hadn't done the job for the dogs? XD).
Azura
I've only read a few of the posts in here, but here's my take on it.

It's possible everyone's looking at it the wrong way.

Weed represents the truest virtues people love - honesty, honour, kindness. Weed is desperate in saving others, trying to get everyone to redeem themselves, and more often than not, this causes others to change. His purity reaches them, shakes them, makes them realize what they are doing is wrong. In any world that most consider "ideal," this would happen in every single case.

In some cases, yes, he is not like this, but it's mostly when he's on his own fighting (Such as his initial confrontation with Hougen in the anime.), or when he was kidnapped by Rocket and his brothers. In those situations, he has to act quickly. It's when an opponent is outnumbered, or is being put to shame, for lack of a better phrase (Such as when Gin goes to kill Hougen, and everyone is cheering Gin on.), that he deems it completely unfair, and therefore unhonourable.

Obviously, however, some don't change. In the anime, Sander and Lector insisted on killing Weed (Twice, in fact, Jerome stopped them the second time.), and of course, Hougen is Hougen. He doesn't give a shit what some child says, even if said child is trying to spare his life.

What if the message isn't that "Killing is wrong," but instead, "You can't save everyone?" I suppose it's a rather "dark" or depressing message to carry, but other anime have done similar things (Puella Magi Madoka Magica being a good enough example. One of the main morals of that story was basically, "Be careful what you wish for." And think of the numerous times things were starting to go right, only to end going horribly wrong.).

Morals in stories don't always have to be sunshine and rainbows. They can carry bitter, unhappy messages. They can show the truth, as opposed to covering it up with the trivial, fairytale endings that people love and dream of.

Of course, it's possible that I myself am looking too far into it, but I believe it's a decent enough thought.
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